You could save a newbie's life!!! Let's talk brakes.

[Wolffarmer]

On trailers the size that most are on this forum a battery is not needed. I do not know where the weight limit is where a battery is needed. Juat that I do not need to worry about it.

Randy

[Trackstriper]

"Brakes cost less than two hundred bucks including the controller. CHEAP insurance."

Let me go with with Gus on this one.

Early Eighties, Honda Accord, 800# trailer. Missed recognizing a turn-only lane at 60+mph, poor road marking, emergency maneuver...late at night. Went through Bott dotts and marbles at a country intersection trying to keep the binders effective, not much purchase. Went over an embankment at relatively slow speed...maybe 10mph...slid down 15 vertical feet of grass and planted the rig into some hay bales used for erosion control. Damage? None. Someone came out of nearby trailer park (ironic) and asked if'n I was OK, then he moved the bales while I stood on the brakes.... I was able to drive out of the situation and back to level ground. Ten mph faster.....don't know.... probably would have gone airborne and had the trailer on top of my head.

Emergency situations happen. I've worn seatbelts religiously since the sixties, before they were factory installed. Have only needed the belts (in a different experience) for about 1/10 of a second back in 1979. When you need them they are of great use, otherwise they are either a nuisance or a good habit. Brakes are the same way. Sometimes you need all the stopping power you can get.

[eamarquardt]

On trailers the size that most are on this forum a battery is not needed. I do not know where the weight limit is where a battery is needed. Juat that I do not need to worry about it.

Randy

A while back I spoke to the Highway Patrol and the officer said that if there are brakes installed on a trailer, they must work (including the breakaway gear even if the trailer isn't required to have brakes due to its weight).

Another issue is that when in a state that has laws different than your home state (where the trailer is registered) you must comply with the laws of the state you are in. No slack.

Cheap insurance, you are in compliance anywhere you go, your insurance company won't disown you should a problem arise, and if there is a problem you won't be found negligent in that your rig was not properly equipped.

Gus, out.

Cheers,

[Wolffarmer]

When then fooey, I will just go without brakes and grind the ears off the axle for them to save even more weight. Easier to lose weight that way than diet and exercise.

Randy

[kirkman]

Looks to me like surge brakes are the way to go. Yea there is some maintenance and you have to lock them out when you back up but if you change TV's as much as I do. (I drive so many miles for work a TV only last me about 3 to 4 years.) It is one more thing I don't have to take out of a vehicle when I sell it just to turn around and install it in the new one and I can tow with my wife's car if needed.

[Wolffarmer]

Another minus for surge brakes is that sometimes you have to pull the trailer down a hill. And I still would rather run electrical lines on the trailer than fit brake lines. Need to determine the correct length of lines and get them. Bend them without crushing them. Fasten them down so they don't vibrate. Put in fittings to go to a flex hose to go to the axle. It takes great skill and a special tool to make the flares on them and it is steel tubing not copper. Wiring is so much easier for the home shop.

Randy

[CARS]

I'm in a similar situation. '68 Dart, '70 Superbee. Both with horrible factory brakes (collecting parts for disc conversions on both of them). The other TV is a 80's Ford F-250. No issues there with a loaded car trailer. Should cut it!

I am torn. I was going to go with surge, but since the truck is already wired for electric, that might be the way to go. It wouldn't take much to wire the controller in the Dart, but making it look good in there... a different story.

(my car friends made fun of me for adding the hitch, can't wait till they see the controller!)

[Forrest747]

My axle has the option to add brakes I will see money is tight. however i did upgrade my rear brakes on the jeep to disk brakes an upgrade from the drum brakes. I will have to upgrade the plugs in the jeep and Charley

[CARS]

Do you have to add more frame clearance when you add brakes??

The electric kits don't look that "fat", but the hydraulic kits look like they would take up some room. Especially if you have a dropped axle.

[Evan Gaffney]

I'm in a similar situation. '68 Dart, '70 Superbee. Both with horrible factory brakes (collecting parts for disc conversions on both of them). The other TV is a 80's Ford F-250. No issues there with a loaded car trailer. Should cut it!

I am torn. I was going to go with surge, but since the truck is already wired for electric, that might be the way to go. It wouldn't take much to wire the controller in the Dart, but making it look good in there... a different story.

(my car friends made fun of me for adding the hitch, can't wait till they see the controller!)

I had the same concern with the Galaxie (I mostly drive it, but there is the occasional car show). To solve the problem, I fabbed up my own center console and put my modern stereo, electric window controls, 12v outlets, etc. in there. This way when I pull into a show, I unhook the console, move it to the trunk, and the car goes back to looking original (minus the racing stripes, wheels, rollcage, racing buckets, and harnesses ). Even if you cars already have consoles, I would imagine it would be pretty easy to rig something up to sit on top in front of or behind the shifter. Otherwise, put it under the dash and tell your friends it's for nitrous control...

With that said, if you really intend to operate 3 tow vehicles, you'd be ahead on time and money if you just installed surge brakes (but I think they sound like a pain in the butt to live with).

[eamarquardt]

When then fooey, I will just go without brakes and grind the ears off the axle for them to save even more weight. Easier to lose weight that way than diet and exercise.

Randy

Flanges (with no brake assemblies bolted to them) are not brakes. So you're good (if you meet the weight limitations of the state you are driving in and the limits of your vehicle)' Good, though,
is a "relative term".

Cheers,

Gus

[eamarquardt]

Do you have to add more frame clearance when you add brakes??

The electric kits don't look that "fat", but the hydraulic kits look like they would take up some room. Especially if you have a dropped axle.

In a word: No. The size of the electric brake hardware and the hydraulic hardware is the same and they both use the same drums.

Cheers,

Gus

[eamarquardt]

Another minus for surge brakes is that sometimes you have to pull the trailer down a hill. And that is exactly when the brakes work. If you are indeed "pulling it down the hill" the actuator isn't being actuated and the brakes aren't being applied. And I still would rather run electrical lines on the trailer than fit brake lines. Your choice. Need to determine the correct length of lines and get them. Not difficult if one can use a tape measure. Bend them without crushing them. Not difficult if you use an inexpensive tube bender (HF has em) or use a piece of 2" (or greater) bar stock as a form. Fasten them down so they don't vibrate. You should tie up your electrical wires so one 1/4" hydraulic line isn't much different. Put in fittings to go to a flex hose to go to the axle. If you can screw in a lightbub you can connect hydraulic lines. It takes great skill and a special tool to make the flares on them the "special tool is availble and it is steel tubing not copper. The tool isn't that expensive, is easy to use, and can be used on copper tubing to create a flare that is much stronger than a single single flare. Wiring is so much easier for the home shop. Having done both several times, not IMHO.

Randy

The tool: http://www.harborfreight.com/double-tub ... 66534.html

According to this video it's "very easy" to make a double flare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTvYMjwVdc

Installing hydraulic lines is not difficult but it is different than wiring and a number of folks are reluctant to try something new to them. Once you've done it a time or two, it isn't a big deal.

Cheers,

Gus

[eamarquardt]

you have to lock them out when you back up

I have only actuated the brakes (on my dump trailer-see album, the teardrop has electric brakes) while backing up once. That was going up a fairly steep incline with a full load of firewood. Other than that one time, I've never noticed a problem (and yes the brakes are working).

Cheers,

Gus

[Evan Gaffney]

The tool: http://www.harborfreight.com/double-tub ... 66534.html

According to this video it's "very easy" to make a double flare: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usTvYMjwVdc

Installing hydraulic lines is not difficult but it is different than wiring and a number of folks are reluctant to try something new to them. Once you've done it a time or two, it isn't a big deal.

Cheers,

Gus

Gus, this is nothing against your opinion (your posts have helped me out a lot already), just my personal experience with hydraulic braking systems.

Having run my share of automotive brake lines, I have to disagree with the "easy" part. Creating brake flares and bending steel brake lines is easy if you have the right tool, but the right tool is going to cost you almost as much as your entire braking system. The cheap flare tools create cheap flares, which WILL leak. If they do, you often have to form the whole brake line over again from scratch (since cutting off the bad flare and redoing it often makes the line too short). In short, it's not my favorite job.

If you run DOT3 fluid, it will hold water and require frequent bleeding to stop it from rusting your brake components. If it leaks, it will eat the paint off your drums, wheels, and frame.

If you run synthetic, you'll find that it's a pain to bleed (it holds air very easily). It's also waaaaaaay thinner and slicker than DOT3, so it leaks easier (a flare fitting that seals fine using DOT3 may leak like crazy using synthetic). Ask me how I know.

Then, when it's done, you'll have to get out of the car and disable the brakes every time you back up. All these frustrations are going to lead to lots of swearing ... or at least they would for me.

In summary, if you're properly equipped and experienced to do the job, and if surge brakes fit your particular towing needs (multiple tow vehicles or people that lend their trailers) then go for it. For the average person working out of their garage, you will likely encounter less grief installing a complete electric braking system and putting controllers in each tow vehicle. Just make sure that you have good grounds and solder the connections.