The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

[eaglesdare]

haha i know i should have asked, i thought about it, but very quickly thought how i could use it, then dismissed the idea. the guy wasn't very nice though, he was putting in some overtime, or was running late to get out of there. he was very short with us, did exactly what had to be done and he was done with it. as soon as he was done he left and clocked out and was gone. but i should have asked, in his state of mind, he might have said yes just to be rid of us.

[GPW]

That just might have worked .... maybe try again , give him a call , He’ll be Glad to see you ... you never know .... The Squeaky wheel DOES get the grease... "Fortes fortuna adiuvat” ... "Fortune favors the Bold" ...

[atahoekid]

Salespeople have a saying. You have to A-S-K to G-E-T the business. Go ahead and ask, all they can say is no.

[KCStudly]

Didn't get as much done today as I would have liked.

Had to run a family errand this morning, got to Fab Mecca around 11am. Bolted the jack to the coupler and took a picture of the assembly (will post next time). At this time I was still not sure which way to go with the coupler, swivel vs. std. If I were to go with the swivel I could work to the existing plan and get the tongue rails cut today, but if I stayed w/ the std. coupler I would have to wait until I figured out the changes on the computer (due to the complexity of the angles it would be easier to just remodel it). I suppose I could have worked something out by measuring a few things and laying it out with a pencil old school, but I have been conditioned to use the software to model things out; better accuracy and ability to predict booge-a-boo situations that way.

Karl was into my design for the swivel coupler. He likes to fab neat mechanical things and was nudging me towards the swivel (typical gearhead ). That plus the caution tag on the store bought coupler that said not to use at extreme angles was sort of taunting me with respect to not knowing the exact conditions on the Magruder Road. The short wheelbase on the Jeep being a factor that could amplify the effect of even a small ledge or other sharp transition, whereas a longer wheelbase vehicle would be affected less. I really would not want to break something, oh say right in the middle of the Magruder, 44 miles from pavement and who knows how far from parts supply...it is remote! (Love this pic...it is inspirational!!!)


And this side spur off of the Magruder gives an indication of potential road conditions (maybe better, maybe worse ). (Both images are from this guy again http://jeffhead.com/magruder/index.htm ...thanks dude.)


We clamped a draw bar with 2" ball to the bench, connected the std coupler and measured the available travel between binding at 26 deg up and 24 degrees down. We used a nifty angle finder/level device that Karl had (had a little adjuster wheel on it to dial in the exact level, not just one of those cheap magnetic angle finders... I should have taken a pic ). The std coupler is actually stamped with the brand name "Shelby" 5101, not Carry-On, but the spec.'s are the same as mentioned before.

The negatives against the swivel are: 1) any potential hiccup with the uncertified part at DMV during inspection for VIN (on a home built I will have to take time off during the week to go half way across the state ...small state... about an hour drive to the state DMV office in Wethersfield...Karl and I agreed that the chances of this would be quite small if the quality of workmanship was good... which we know it would be ...and besides, if they were to fail me, I could always just pull the swivel spud out of the front of the frame and weld on the std coupler temporarily to get thru inspection, kind of a pain and another day off work to get reinspected ), and 2) the extra complication and machine work of fabricating the assembly. Karl asked if there were any commercial off road couplers available and I explained that they were not inexpensive and most of the ones I have seen, tho functional, are not very streamlined or particulary attractive to my eye. Can you see where this is heading?

In the meantime we took a ride to another fab shop that he is doing some subcontract work for, had a slice of pizza for lunch, discussed the coupler options some more, then back to his shop where I decided to just go ahead and go for the swivel.

So I went ahead and cut the tongue side rails and the front xmbr from the 2x2x3/16 tube. (Seems there would have been enough for the rear xmbr, too, but since we have it, I will use the 1/8 wall stuff at the rear.) Had to noodle a bit to figure out the cutting schedule. First I set the saw for the miter angle where the short rock rail meets the main tongue rail at the front of the main frame side rail, then, from the 1/8 inch wall tube, I cut a short blank on each end for both of the little rock slider pieces (check/double check clocking so that I get the proper oppisite hand parts with just 3 cuts). I will take this piece to work and bisect it on the vertical band saw there to get the two oppisite hand pieces. Remember how I said that I didn't like the look of these pieces under the doors, so I decided to make the little ramp angle steeper than shown and steeper than Karl's saw will cut, so to the vetrtical saw with thee. With the saw located the way we had it on the bench running across the room (both the saw and the tables are portable, tho) the full 24 ft stick would only fit on the table with quite a bit sticking thru the saw, and both of the tongue rails have a different angle miter on each end. So to avoid changing the saw angle back and forth a bunch of times and risk getting inconsistant angles it went like this: cut the rear complementing angle in the first tongue rail leaving a little extra length to allow the raw end to be trimmed later; square the saw and cut the second tongue rail blank a couple of inches long; cut the front xmbr square to exact length; reset the saw to the angle for the front of the tongue rails; then with great care taken to clock the tongue rail blanks properly in the saw (double check, hold the plans up backwards and upside down to check and double check, and triple-double-idiot check) that I am putting the correct angle in the correct orientation to the previously cut angle on the other end, then run the saw; and take a boring pic of the saw running an angle cut (might post pic later).

Didn't want to work too late today (Sunday), because the wife, Yvette, wanted some together time (we ended up having a very nice dinner at a nice restaurant down by one of the marinas on the Thames River in New London...lobster bisque was not on the diet plan, but...yum!), so I stacked my parts neatly on the back of the bench out of Karl's way and called it a weekend.

Will continue to source bits and pieces, and work on small parts n' stuff after work on Mon and Tue. Will also measure up and model the std coupler so that I can include a suitable alternate design on the plans, as well as edit the angle for the rock sliders.

On Wed evening I will go back up to Mecca and cut the rear xmbr (have to drag that extra 1/8 wall stick of tubing off of the front porch and bring it around to the shop/saw). If I have any materials for the swivel assy available by then ( ) I can get started on that. Will save main frame assembly and welding for next weekend when there is enough time to get it together enough to be able to move it out of Karl's way again during the week.

Wednesday nights are good for fab because the wife has pottery until late and I am on my own for supper (not that I'm not on my own for supper on other nights, too, it's just that Wednesdays are a known schedule). Vette has gotten very good at "throwing" (spinning) and glazing pots and we have quite a nice collection of bowls, cups and dishes, etc., plus they make very well received gifts for friends and family (may throw a pic in later if anyone would like to see).

All for now,

[KCStudly]

Thought I should check,

Are my posts too long?

Too much detail?

Interesting enough that I should not change the amount of detail and sideways information?

Basically I am trying to document the whole process in an interesting and entertaining fashion, by making it somewhat of a diary, rather than a documentary.

But at the same time I realize that I can provide too much information and detail for a lot of folks to bother taking the time to read, and that my ramblings and side bars can be hard to follow at times (?).

Your opinions and constructive critisisms are welcome.

[GPW]

Your posts are Fine , keep em’ coming !!!

[eaglesdare]

your posts are great, but add more pics.

[loaderman]

We like pics

[KCStudly]

Pretty pissed right now.
Just compossed a moderate length post with updates. Went to preview it and was booted out to the login page.
Lost it all.
Perhaps I was smitten by the forum gods for not including any pics?

Oh well, too late this evening to start over, so you will just have to wait for an update when I have time to down/up load some pictures and tell my story again.

[GPW]

KC, Happens !!! On a long detailed post I always make a copy ...just in case...

[KCStudly]

During the week I have been splitting my time between scrounging up bits and pieces of material, advancing the shop drawing details (turning the 3D model into useful dimensions) making a few revisions to the model and drawings as I come across things that I want to change, and starting to fab parts for the swivel coupler.

Last Sunday, besides the road trip described above and the decision to go with the scratch built off road style swivel coupler, I took a couple of pics that I just uploaded.

A warm shop.


The std coupler and tongue jack sitting on the trailer plans.


Underside of std coupler & jack.


Took the std coupler in to work... Command Central...


and made a 3D model of it with enough detail that I can go back later and make a version of the tongue assembly with the std coupler (slightly longer tongue rails and small tie plate to clear the mounting holes for the jack, instead of the small tubular xmbr on the swivel version). This included documenting the jack bolting pattern and thru hole so that I can incorporate a jack mounting pad into the front of the swivel style tongue frame. Note the little black rectangular shape on the wall above and to the left of the monitor that says "SEIKI" ...I'll get to that in a moment.

Then I took the rock slider blank, made previously over to the DoAll vertical band saw.


The DoAll can do it! I forget the model number at the moment, IIRC it is a model 16, as in a 16 inch throat between blade and cabinet.

Here's the rock slider blank (actually, if you look closely you might be able to see that the part has already been bisected on a 30 deg bias, and that this is a posed photo after the fact...forgot to take pic beforehand).

The bit of wood and small piece of aluminum are used as push sticks. Safety first!

Back in a jiffy.

[KCStudly]

Here I am!

Cutting the rock slider blank into right and left hand mitered pieces (these are the parts that tie the rear ends of the tongue side rails into the main trailer frame rails.

(posed photo with saw not running, again part is already cut thru)




Tuesdays I have a standing commitment and had to run a couple of unrelated errands before hand, so just worked on the plans a little.

Making the Swivel Pintle (the spud that will allow the swivel coupler to roll on the long axis):
Earlier in the week I had scrounged up a piece of 2 inch round bar out of some scraps I had collected years ago from yet another fab shop where I had worked as a draftsman (my first real "professional" job). Back when men drew on vellum with mechanical pencils, drafting machines, plastic triangles, circle templates, compasses, and protractors. Never underestimate that power of a trusty eraser shield!!! At the end when a set of drawings was approved we would have to run them thru a developing machine with blue print paper...the smell of the amonia based developer would fill the upstairs drafting office and waft down into the shop. During slow periods in the office, or whenever we had stair stringers that needed laying out, I would go down into the shop and do fab work. Dumpster dive for scraps 'til my heart was content. Still have a small stock pile that I draw on from time to time. Well this piece must have been situated between the Unobtainium and the Whatsalloy...looked like mild steel, little bit rusty. Sanded like mild steel, yellow/orange sparks. Cut like mild steel in the saw, no rolled teeth on the saw blade...must be mild steel, right?

Into the Southbend engine lathe. After checking to see that it was chucked up reasonably true (making a minor adjustment and rechecking within +/- .005) I faced the end off.


Set the indicator to zero reference.


Make a scratch mark at the first shoulder as a visual reference.

Note that I have drilled a centering hole and added a live center to support the free end.

And start turning.


Now I'm just a beginner at machine work. Not a complete novice. I can turn simple parts and do some basic milling operations, but something seemed a little off to me. The chip was rolling off in one long continuous strand (unsafe due to the potential for "rats nesting" and "reach-out-and-grab-you" blood letting. I tried slowing the lathe speed, changing the cutter angle, lowering the cutter some, all to no effect. The biggest cut I was able to take was about .030 per pass, and, at times, I was getting some significant chatter starting about 2/3 into a pass. I was going to ask for help with the threading and final surfacing anyway...would be a shame to spend all this time and then blow it on the critical stuff at the end.

I got about to here

and decided that I would call this a blanking operation and would consult one of our inhouse machinists (true professionals) on Thursday.

Dave Z. ("Big D to the Little z" - inside joke), an all around nice guy...he and his son Zack have built tuner show cars and run a small powder coating business catering to the local tuner show car circuit...ZzPowderCoating.com, agreed to help me out after work on Thursday.

The big boys toys...the Fryer CNC lathe.


Close up of the Fryer controls.


Remember the little broken piece of "SEIKI" logo next to my desk?


That's the reason I am not allowed to use the Fryer! One day I was turning a large-ish flange piece (actually a sight glass portal flange that had rusted out where the gasket seated...had done a weld repair and was just trying to clean up some rough edges) on our big old Mori Seiki lathe. Well that flange was just about at the limit of the chuck, I was turning nice and slow...and BS'ing with Dave. Went to start the next cut, thought I was reaching for the feed lever, but grabbed and yanked the carriage travel wheel instead. Carriage slammed the cutter into the work, popped the piece out of the jaws of the chuck, the piece was too big to fall between the ways, chuck jaw sticking out on the chuck came around, slammed into the piece and stopped the lathe cold in its tracks...with a bang. Got my attention. Busted several teeth off of low gear. The guys in the machine shop both felt really bad for me, they had been in similar situations before themselves. In fact they were greatful and had been abusing the poor thing pretty hard in the hopes that it would die soon and they could then justify upgrading to a more modern CNC. The boss took it well; I stood up and told him that I had screwed up, took all the blame. That's all they want. Nothing pisses them off more than people hiding their mistakes and leaving some not so little surprises lurking in the shadows. We pulled the top off of the gear box and took a look...not good. Fished out the bits that we could with a magnet, changed the oil, put a strap on the gear change lever screwed right into the side of the case so that no one would try to switch to low range, and ran it in high gear only until the end. The repair parts would cost more than the lathe was worth, not including our time to rebuild it. Enter the Fryer...Kev doesn't get to use the Fryer. The day that the guys threw the Mori Sieki into the dumpster, the logo plate broke off and the guys thoughtfully gave it to me as a momento. I wear it proudly as a lesson learned. Don't be distracted when operating machinery, complacency brings mistakes and possible injury.

More in a sec.

[KCStudly]

Where were we? Oh yeah,

Setting up in the Fryer.


Turning in the Fryer.


Note the second step cut where the cutter is about to start threading.

They have a threading subroutine programmed in that zips back and forth taking a small amount with the 60 deg cutter point each pass. They also do a "spring back" pass where the same path is traced again to allow for the preload that happens on (relatively) "heavier" passes.

Nearing the end.


And test fitting a 1-8UNC nut, the final piece will have a thru hole in the thread for a slotted nut and cotter pin.


So I asked Dave about the problems that I was having with the chip, and both he and Don (the other machinist) agreed that the metal was not mild steel, perhaps 4140 chromemoly, or some form of stellite (stellram, maybe). Not good. This part is intended to have a fabricated clevis welded to the big shoulder (half of the swivel u-joint attaches to the clevis half) and any of these hybrid alloys can develop stress cracking if not heat soaked prior to welding, and stress relieved properly afterwards. Being as how we really don't know what alloy this is, it is just not worth the risk of having a weld failure at this critical joint! So we stopped right there and considered this a dry run proof of method. The part will be remade over again using a known piece of mild steel. Doh.

[GPW]

Nice to have access to real tools !!!

[KCStudly]

Picked through the old magic milk crate of scrap for another chunk of steel for tonight's after work project; The tongue jack mounting plate.


Used the Jet cut off saw (located in the basement fab shop at work) to cut the blank to length.


Cleaned off the burr from the saw cut using the sanding wheel.


Removed the little bit of rust and mill scale in the grit blast cabinet.


A little layout and prick punch work.


See the little brass crowned scribe in the previous pic? It stores in the back of the combination square. I think most people don't even know those are there, or don't know what it's for. I didn't bother with any layout dye (Dykem), but was still able to get a very accurate layout with just a rule, this square and the scribe. Hit it with a few sharpie marks to make the punch marks stand out and it's off to the DoAll vertical bandsaw again.


Of the three bolt pattern, the centrally located hole goes to the front of the trailer (bottom of pic) and the triangular cuts at the outside front (bottom) run parallel to the tongue frame rails, with a little set back margin so that the welds will land inside of the radius on the edge of the square tube. The rear (upper) triangular cuts are just there to trim a small amount of extra weight (very small) and to make the part “appeal to the eye”.


I already know off the top of my head that a 3/8-16UNC tap requires a 5/16 pilot hole, but because you folks (me, too) are all so hungry for pics, here’s a shot of the tap chart hanging on the wall in the machine shop.


A nice sharp drill bit…


If not, Drill Doctor to the rescue.


Over to the Bridgeport J-head milling machine…(In my best Tim "The Tool Man" Tayler voice, thumping chest) Urgh, Urgh, Urgh!!!


I work with a real talented group of nice down to earth blue collar guys (no offense intended, hell, I’m blue collar myself!!!), but their mothers and wives don’t work here. Left the vise and bed ways all full of an accumulation of chips from numerous jobs. (In my best Romper Room teacher’s voice – “I see stainless, and mild, and Teflon, there’s brass, and drill bits and pipe hangers…). Anyway, clean out the vise and add a make shift set of parallels to hold the piece up and avoid drilling into the vise.


Clamp the work piece.


Chuck a pilot drill and align the bed with work piece under the bit.


Add a bit of cutting oil and its time to make some chips!!! Nice double fluted spiral chip…I love a sharp drill bit and slow cutting speed!


Change to 5/16 drill bit and poke it again.


Power tapping. Slowest speed, plenty of cutting oil, start with a little pressure then let the tap feed itself, bury it, shut the motor off, reverse, Bob’s you’re uncle no fuss no muss.


Wash, rinse, repeat, and we have three perfectly tapped threaded holes.


Center and pilot drill the jack cylinder thru hole.


Lots of lube, lowest speed, 2-1/4 inch hole saw.


Making chips!!!


Clean the chips out and lube frequently, especially once the relief in the saw tooth gets buried below the surface of the work.


Now the hole saw is 2-1/4 dia and it cuts a little bigger swath due to wobble, kerf, runout, etc., but the jack cylinder is also 2-1/4 plus paint. Don't have a 2-5/16 hole saw? Set up an adjustable boring bar.


Mount boring bore in mill (it only looks misaligned in the photo due to the angle of the camera).


Slow feed and speed, light cuts to get out to 2-5/16 plus a scoatch (2.340 to be exact).


Clean up after yourself!!!


Back to the basement to sand all the sawn edges smooth, radius the corners a bit, and knock off any small burrs.


Final deburring with… wait for it… a deburring tool! The little hooked knife blade swivels in the end of the yellow holder so that when you drag the knife across edges it always presents the correct cutting profile, usually.


Another shot of the part and deburring tool.


Finished part.


Worked on the drawings some more and called it a night.

Tomorrow, Saturday, I will take the std coupler back for a refund and hope to return to Fab Mecca to get something more done, need to scrounge up some proper mild steel round bar for the swivel coupler and still need to cut the rear trailer frame xmbr. Maybe get the main frame section welded up.

When I arrived home there was a package stuck in the storm door; the bronze bushings, slotted 1 inch nut and SS fixturing washer that I ordered for the swivel coupler, and a bag of the pronged thread inserts that will be used to bolt the floor to the trailer. Pulled everything out of the box and the individual plastic bags, laid them all out and took a photo, but the photo did not come out of the camera for some reason. Will try again next time.

All for now, nighty, night.