The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Canvas covered foamies (Thrifty Alternatives...)

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sun Jan 27, 2013 11:32 pm

Back to Mecca today at about 1pm; 32 deg F in loft and Karl had the wood stove going below for about 1/2 hr prior, give or take.

Started both heaters and the turd, and pulled the weights and freezer paper off of yesterday’s work.

The block with the most water had actually kicked off pretty well after all, sticking to the freezer paper and filling in most of the slight voids around the sides of the block.
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The next had less water, very slightly damped, and had some GG foam up and out the sides, but not 100/ct.
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The next (and another not shown) had no water and seemed about the same as the one with less water; some foam up but not all around.
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All of these seemed to be a little depressed, rather than pushed up, and some areas where the extra blocks on top didn’t line up showed where the foam had kind of been squished. So it looked like the weight concentration was a little high; enough to squash the foam board.

Just a kiss with the small Sureform and a quick brush up with the 100 grit sanding block and these were all set to go.

Lessons learned while using GG: (1) Less water and (2) concentrate the correct amount of weight.

With regard to the TB2 test of pine to foam, I could not separate the two by hand. I even put the edge of the wood against the edge of the work table and pressed down on the foam with all my might, trying to separate the two pieces in shear, and could not make them budge (although I could feel the foam compressing slightly where I was grabbing it).
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I did scuff the foam just a tad using the small 100 grit sanding block before gluing.

Used some water from the drinking water that I had on hand (it had not frozen all the way) and wiped that on using a dampened paper towel on to the last (?) two blocks, then glued them in and used just the spacer blocks and wire spools without the extra weight of the boxes of screws
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(… Last two at this time for the street side interior… there may be another for the optional hydraulic struts, and I am having second thoughts for the light switches, whether to use blocking or not… thinking that the light switch plates might need something to screw into… but maybe just glue them to the interior skins… but then again, if they need to be pulled away for service, maybe better to screw them on.) Lots more blocks to go on the other wall, and some more on the outsides.

Then I blew the 228 lantern apart and got started on making it a runner again.

Put my frozen glue brush pot and spritzing bottle on the window sill hoping that the sun light will help keep them thawed. The drinking water bottles where in a bag on the floor and were still mostly thawed, while the brush pot and sprayer bottle were at the top of my tool shelf where drafts from the roof eaves are probably strongest.
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All for today.
KC
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby RandyG » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:25 pm

I notice when your post starts with "Back to Mecca", that always means you got some work done. :thumbsup:

I'm in disbelief that the TB2 held to the foam that well, not doubting your strength but are you sure it wasn't frozen solid?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:12 pm

Karl as my witness. I swear. :worship:

I did not lift myself off of the floor or anything like that, nor did I pry at it with any tools or such, but for just gripping it in my hands and pulling, twisting, prying with finger nails, pressing on the edge of the table, etc. I was very impressed.

Let me recap what I did;
Smeared TB2 on a 1x4 (3/4 x 3.5 actual) x 3.5 inch block of wood using a phony credit card, being careful to spread evenly and not too thin. I don't think I sanded the wood at all, but if I had it would have been just a scuff or two with 100 grit on a small hand block.

Scuffed the 1-1/2 thk foam with the 100 grit small block just a stroke or three.

Set the wood onto the foam and put a tub of SS screws on top (my guess is not more than 5 lbs; didn't even look).

Let it sit 24 hrs. starting at, like 46-48 deg F; overnight low on the loft thermometer was 20F (or lower... not sure on my memory), temp at end when I torture tested was 32F, but I would think the glue had probably done it's thing before getting to freezing.

Here are a couple of thoughts: (1) The block is relatively small so the glue had a pretty good chance of drying from the edges in, (2) The humidity was relatively low so the wood stood a good chance of soaking in the glue and taking its moisture, (3) I did not set the wood into a pocket, like I am doing for the real wall blocking, so it is likely that it was able to dry more/faster than if I had recessed the wood, (4) Not sure if I should read a little witticism into you comment. If so, :lol: :lol: :lol: , but if not, I think that if the glue was just frozen it would be even weaker than if a true glue bond had formed.

And one more thing; let's say when I pressed down on the bench edge I was able to put some number less than half my weight on it (let's call it 100 lbs... about 38/ct of my weight). Over the surface area of the block that's only about 8 lbs/sq inch. So that seems pretty reasonable to me that it could have handled the load. And another one more thing; with each of these blocks buried in the foam AND captured behind the skin(s) I just don't see how they could fail. Maybe a screw would strip out or break, but I don't see anyway that any of these blocks are coming out without taking a big bite of foam and skin with it (i.e. Disasterville).

Thanks for watching RandyG, and for playing along. :thumbsup:

Oh yeah, another dusting of snow here this afternoon/evening, turned to rain and now freezing again. Typical New England ice storm. I'm in for the night. :roll:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:44 pm

76F here today ... :roll:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby aggie79 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:39 am

GPW wrote:76F here today ... :roll:
Only 71 here today.

KC - you live in beautiful country, but I believe my blood is a little too thin for the cold temps you've been experiencing. Anything below 50 degrees in the shop and I'm looking for a jacket and firing up the Mr. Heater Buddy Heater.

Keep up the great work! And thanks for exploring and reporting on new techniques.

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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:18 am

Liquid Snow today ... Going from 75F to low 40s .... :frightened: Sure must be Nice to have a Heated indoor Shop !!!! 8)
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby Ned B » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:05 pm

forecast for 65° today... rain plus melting snow = flood warnings here...
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:44 pm

Thanks Tom. As mentioned in another thread, I have recently been going back through your SB build thread and am finding it inspirational in bolstering my attempts to maintain a high attention level on the details and quality. I tend to be warm most of the time that I am doing even moderate activity, so I find when it is cold, so long as I am doing something, I generally am comfortable. The lady across the street thinks I'm crazy when after an hour or so of snow removal I start stripping down to my T-shirt!

Thanks again for the kind words. :thumbsup:

GeeP-w, forecast for today was a high of 50F... NANNY-NANNY-POO-POO, NANNY-NANNY-POO-POO :chicken: :lol: :D :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Ned B, thanks for the weather report and for watching. Be safe. :thumbsup:
KC
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:08 pm

Off topic.

Here are some parts for a scale model of the next generation punkin chunker that the team will be working on this Sunday.
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Modi dwg
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:D
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:40 am

KC, you guys ever exceed the “Speed of Punkin’ “ ??? where it just explodes from accelerating so FAST ... :o I’ve seen the shows ...BIG MONSTER SCARY Machines Indeed !!! :frightened: Amazing the distances chunked’ !!! 8) would hate to be on the measuring team ... :shock:
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:07 pm

GPW wrote: KC, you guys ever exceed the “Speed of Punkin’ “ ??? where it just explodes from accelerating so FAST ... :o

We call that "pie", as in "pumpkin pie", or ...well, the mushy version of pumpkin. Sometimes the spray gets you a little (there is usually a head wind). It does happen to us, too, but ours are always mechanically induced; either by the pumpkin hitting part of the machine due to sling failure, or by the pumpkin's integrity being damaged by the sling/pouch, though we think we have this licked now with the bow line separators. :thumbsup: There will be a whole other set of challenges with the new design. ;) :frightened: :x :o :D 8)

GPW wrote:I’ve seen the shows ...BIG MONSTER SCARY Machines Indeed !!! :frightened:

They are very impressive. Just the level of effort and amount of time that you can imagine all of the 110 some odd teams that are allowed to participate have put in; the amount of infrastructure that has collectively gone into such an event, it is very impressive to see first hand...more so than what can be appreciated on the broadcast shows (... and yet it can be quite miserable, too, back breaking work and slogging it out with little sleep, in the exposure of mother nature while congregating in a dusty, windy, cold, sometimes muddy farmers field). It can be quite dangerous, too, but therein lies the excitement!!! 8) The excitement leading up to a throw, with all of the effort that it takes just to get there and set the machine up, wondering if the fixes and "improvements" that we have spent time designing and building are going to get us a further throw. We like to say, "Something is going to happen", as if we have no idea what 'something' is going to be... because it is true! There is so much power stored in that bit of rope (spring) that it really does need to be taken seriously, and respected. (Okay, its a lot of big rope, but bigger, better, more is a punkin chunkin mantra.)

GPW wrote:Amazing the distances chunked’ !!! 8)

And how!!! It is truly mind boggling to see. Adam, from Chucky3 (the best in our torsion class, and a real threat to unseat the air cannons for the overall win) said it well, 'When the pumpkin gets really small really fast and you can't see it come down; now that's a good throw,' (or something like that... maybe not an exact quote).

GPW wrote: would hate to be on the measuring team ... :shock:

I'm not aware of any of the spotters every getting hit (one year a kid in the parking lot was injured by a backfire... couple of cars have been damaged from time to time :NC ). Unfortunately, two years ago one of the spotters was seriously injured when he launched his quad off of the berm of the service path that runs out through the field. The field is so flat and level and is camouflage to itself, that the slight rise at the path was not as visible to the spotters as it should have been, and he hit it unexpectedly at high speed. The insurance rates went way up, we all have to sign additional waivers, and they now place markers all along the berm so that the spotters can see the path better, plus all of the other safety requirements that are prerequisites to play (hard hats, safety glasses, fire extinguishers, first aid kits, hydraulic hoses in good condition, state boiler/pressure vessel inspections for the air cannon tanks, etc.).

I made progress today on the big hat lantern (Belly Button 228E - Adding to my collection), a couple of small projects, and some work on the street side wall. Stay tuned for an update after I download pic's and post later tonight.
Last edited by KCStudly on Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
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My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

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Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby RandyG » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:59 am

I like the catapults but the air canons get the distance. That's one thing I would love to see with my own eyes. When is the event?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby KCStudly » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:03 am

After lighting the heaters and turd, and getting the 228E running (see above link for new update), I reglued an old cutting board that my wife uses for a lap board on our couch. Then I turned my attention to the street side wall again.

After pulling the weights and spacer blocks off of the “last” two blocking glue-ups, I could see that the spacer blocks had made slight impressions in the freezer paper.
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There was a little squeeze out and some slight push up on the upper cabinet block (shown here upside down, with the push up evident by the dark line on the left of the closer block in this pic)
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You can see the glue squeeze out a little better here.
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I’m starting to wonder if the variation in temperature, and not just the moisture, is contributing to the degree of expansion of the GG. Seems like it should be obvious, but I have not been able to zero in on the ideal application of the GG. Oh, not to worry. I am confident that the joints are strong. It’s just that I would like to get the best of the filling properties w/o having to suffer the extra work of fairing everything back down again.

I shaved the high glue spots down a tad with the small Sureform and finished up fairing the foam and block with the larger homemade hand block with course belt sander paper.

Over the last several days I have been studying up on the hatch strut threads, including some recent newbie threads and Aggie Tom’s, Angib’s, and Grant’s comments on gas struts. I now understand that they are quite different to the linear actuators than I had previously thought due to the fact that they apply constant force (whereas the actuators are switched on and off). Because of this, they want to go from being about perpendicular to the hatch-to-hinge line when fully open, to being in line with the hinge pin (or just a little past, for positive closure) when closed. Otherwise, if configured straddling the dwell point, like I have been saying, they would tend to try to open the hatch when you are trying to close it and get it latched. So you will have to do most of the lifting at first.

I looked at McMaster-Carr and started with the longest throw of the steel struts w/ ball studs first (the stainless steel ones sound really good, but are 10x the $$$). However, Aggie Tom suggested that selecting a style that has lots of power ratings would be a good bet, and the longer throw units are only available in 50 lb. increments, I started to look at the next longest throws with finer steps in weight ratings. (Sorry, the specs are at my desk and I don’t feel like looking them up again at the moment.)

Anyway, I did a few iterations of CAD sketches last night to try and figure out where the blocking would need to go for these struts, but ran out of time before settling on anything concrete.

So I waffled a bit on what to do next and ended up doing a test to see where the screw holes would land when using the Kregg to screw the wall sill down to the floor. In the following pic you can see where I used the Kregg to drill into a 1-1/2 thk test block (representing the wall and wall sill). I split this test piece open on the table saw and shaded the hole in with ink so that it would show up in the pic. The little block on top is to help visualize where the wall sill ends and the foam begins. You can then see how far up into the foam the counter bore from the Kregg will be into the foam.
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Hmm, contemplation. How do I cover the wall in the flat and then screw it to the floor w/o putting holes thru the canvas? For now I’m thinking that I have to apply the canvas just down to a point above these counter bores, leaving the lower portion of the canvas and the part that will wrap under the floor free, then screw the wall to the floor, fill the counter bore holes, then glue the canvas down the rest of the way and wrap under the floor.

So next I got the side profile templates out again and knocked off the little flashing from the CNC router using the small sanding bock (I seem to use that tool more than anything else!).

Then I fit the templates to the wall again and used a sharpie to roughly trace the good arcs onto the foam, and to mark the starting and stopping points for the gentle roof arc portions (the ones that were inverted by the CNC).

Then I removed the templates and used the good part of the arc on the center template section, placing it tangent to the previous marks, and traced the rest of the ceiling arc on the missing sections. If this is confusing, look up a few posts to the part where I noted that my templates had not come out correctly, and where I said that this would make more work for me. I was right.

Then I put the templates back down for some pics to show the deviation. Here is a long shot from the end of the “table” looking from the galley end toward the front.
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I couldn’t resist climbing up on the bench to take another shot of the overall layout.
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In these next few pictures I took them from around the table/floor, but have rotated them here to try and simulate the installed situation better. This is looking from the galley up along the roof line. The rough outline is about 1/8 inch bigger than the template due to the sharpie being dull and the thickness of the nib on the pen, but you can clearly see the larger gap where the template dishes where the correct ceiling outline bows up.
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This is from the front, looking back at the inside of the street side wall where you can see the correct outline of the ceiling vs. the dished front template and the correct (but short) middle template.
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The factory imprint on the back of the flake board with the oblique sunlight made a nice optical shadow effect in the picture.

Here you can see how the block at the top of the front cabinet will be cut.
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Next I took one of the laminated galley wall edgings and laid it onto the tracing to see how well (or poorly) it lined up. Remember I had laid these out by hand before I had gotten the templates in hand.

At first I put the tightest part of the curve (the upper rear) tangent to the sharpie line and checked to see how far out the top and bottom were. Here is the bottom; not great.
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Here’s where it is tangent at the top rear.
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And here is looking forward along the top. No bueno.
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Next I moved the edge piece so that it was covering all of the tracing and traced its outer edge (dashed line) so that I could get an idea of how much it would be thinned if I were to glue it in and trim it to the template.
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Here’s a long shot of the edge piece laying on the wall (Simon supervising from the window ledge).
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I fudged this around a couple of different ways trying to optimize the fit.
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Then I laid the hatch rib template down and found that it was pretty spot on (also made by hand prior to getting the CNC templates). Hmm?
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It turns out that the laminated wall edgings no longer match each other. They must have swelled or shrunk (or at least one of them did) so that they (one?) no longer matches the profile. (I did not check them both against the layout, but they had matched each other very well when they came out of the form and no longer do.) I now need to decide whether I keep going with these (which also have other issues, as mentioned way back), or to make up new ones from segment joined lumber.

Other projects tackled today were to true and re-glue a cutting board for my wife, and these little wooden boxes that I got from a clean out at work. The larger one is somewhat crude; just joined with small box nails, but the smaller one is much cooler with finger jointed sides, a dado slot for a lid (missing lid) and embossed labels on each end for “REX AAA HIGH SPEED BITS”, “HARDENED”, with boxes for “NUMBER OF BITS”, “SIZE” and “WEIGHT”, then “READY FOR USE”.
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They were horribly grimy from years of being exposed to the cutting oil environment of a machine shop, so I hit the bit box with some greenie pad to remove a bunch of the grime w/o ruining the age old patina.
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Although I am not going for the rustic theme on TPCE, I thought this would be a nice touch and would maybe be a good box for keeping strike-anywhere-matches, or maybe lantern mantles and such.

That’s it for now. Tomorrow will be a chunker work day.
KC
My Build: The Poet Creek Express Hybrid Foamie

Poet Creek Or Bust
Engineering the TLAR way - "That Looks About Right"
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby GPW » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:39 am

KC, Great progress you’re making ... :thumbsup: Thanks for the pumpkin info !!! Has anybody tried a sabot on those cannons yet ?

Strange your laminated ribs deformed ... :o Any reason why?
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Re: The Poet Creek Express - Foamie Hybrid

Postby eaglesdare » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:33 am

just a heads up on the canvas/drill issue. you can infact drill thru the canvas once its glued down without any problems. i speak from experience. :wine:
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