Removable camper with removable galley by davidc

[davidc]

First post to this wonderful forum, and I figured it should be in the build journal area. I've found lots of great ideas and answers in the forums, so on top of tracking my build, I wanted a place to share the answers/ choices to many of the questions I've researched and considered. I'm a couple weeks into the build on top of the month of research, and I'm completely addicted. Can't wait for that first time to camp in it!

My build started with the generic benroy plans, and then did several tweaks:
1. 5x9 since I wanted a comfortable amount of space - wanted 5' wide so two people can sleep comfortably across. 9' long for enough space for 6' people to sleep, extra space for pillows and stretching toes, and enough room for a cooler in the galley.
2. The camper portion removable from the trailer so I can use the trailer as a flatbed.
3. Removable galley so I can use it as a covered utility trailer


To trigger my memory for later as I do the documentation, I plan to cover
- the dreaded notch, and how easy it is once you understand the purpose (the depth depending on your weatherstripping, and the top should be placed to minimize roof seams)
- tracing the hatch ribs before you cut the notch, and how dangerous it is to try to try to use the notch waste as the template for the hatch ribs (thin wood doesn't keep its shape as well as hoped, or just breaks while cutting)
- modified spar placement - considerations when changing the overall size of the benroy, and the need to plan a spar under any plywood roof seams
- sources of supply for the parts I've used, especially what I've ordered online. So many of the sources in the forums are way out of date. For certain parts, I'll also recommend not even trying to find something better and just ordering from Grant - I spent hours trying to find something better or cheaper, and it would up being a complete waste of time.
- electrical considerations with a removable galley (restricts where you can place your components)
- tools that have come in necessary/huge time savers compared to just kinda handy
- waterproofing choices based on what feels reasonable, not too difficult to do, and affordable based on the thousands of options and preferences voiced in the forums.
- Tweaks and planned technique for removing the TTT from the trailer (we'll see how it works - this is the scariest part for me)

--David

[Shadow Catcher]

One suggestion for the electrical, that can be placed in a tongue box and electrical connections for the galley with a plug. I use Anderson Power Poles and they have a number of multiconductor plugs that can be made up.
Welcome to the forum and I will be keeping track of your build.

[davidc]

Finally got a chance to write up the work so far. Hard to believe I've only been working on it 4 weeks, with most of that only on the weekends. I was expecting much slower progress based on many of the other posts. Granted, I'm probably not working at the level of perfection that most others are.

Now, to figure out uploading pictures. I think I saw a how-to somewhere on that in the forums. If not, I think I'll be able to figure it out based on the error message I got when attempting the initial uploads

Week 1
Bought the lumber. Highly recommend finding a specialty lumber shop. For Austin, that was http://www.finelumber.com/
I was amazed at the quality of wood (it was straight!) and their selection of sizes tha the big box stores didn't have. 4x10 and 5x5 plywood was found in abundance

This weekend, I cut the side walls, assembled the floor, and waterproofed the floor.

I took two 5x5 1/2" baltic birch sheets and cut them to size to fit inside my flatbed trailer (keep in mind my TTT will be removeable, so no permanent mounting to trailer frame). On top are 2x2" supports on the sides and front. No 2x2 on the back to allow the hatch to close. For extra strength and waterproofing, I put a piece of thin lauan across the seam of the 5x5s, similar to the inside ceiling recommendation in the generic benroy.
The guy at Lowes convinced me to use a solid deck stain rated for foot traffic to seal the bottom of the floor. Hopefully it works.



Week 2
The spars are cut and glued together where needed for extra strength. I misread the generic benroy plans, so the hatch hinge point became 2 of 2x2"s glued together - ought to be strong enough. I also made an extra beefy front spar that will act as the lift point for removing the camper from the trailer.

Preassembled the roof vent framing for easier installation later. I'm not planning on using a roof vent, but wanted the option for later. I will run wiring to it just in case. I'll probably put in a dome light and computer fan in that spot.

Cut the hatch ribs. I traced the un-notched sidewall on the rib plywood first, then cut 8 ribs. Two doubles on the sides of the hatch, and then four on the middle. I added an extra to the benroy plans since I'm a little wider.


Week 3

Cut the notch for the hatch weatherstripping. I went with 1/4" after playing with the weatherstripping for a while to see how much it compresses. The recommendation in the benroy plans would have been too much for what I had.

Floor, walls, and spars all put together.
Glued the roof 5x5's together with a strip of lauan for strength.
Added an extra sideways spar where the roof 5x5 seam is. Since I added a piece of lauan to the underside of the roof, had to drop this spar by the thickness of the lauan

And, the hardest step to this point, attached the roof to the camper. Put PL Premium on all the sidewalls and spars, and got help to place the 10ft long roof on. Had a terrible time lining things up, so I think most of my glue didn't stay where I needed it. Used an air powered stapler to keep the roof in place.
Still haven't figured out how it happened, but there are several gaps between the sides and roof. Will be filling them with adhesive later for strength and extra waterproofing.
I departed from the benroy plans here and did the roof before the inside ceiling. The thought here is that I want to make it usable sooner, and I'll be spending a good bit of time on the inside with work that can happen while the various waterproofing coats dry. Since I'm planning removable cabinets/galley, I shouldn't have an issue loading the ceiling in from the back later.

Filled all the screw and staple holes with bondo lightweight filler. Had never used this before, and was frustrated by the quick hardening time. Wound up mixing several batches to be able to fill all the holes.

After the roof glue set overnight, I used a flush cut router bit to trim the roof overhang. Had never used a router before, and I was amazed at the simplicity. I wouldn't want to try to trim the overhang without one.

Also stained the inside. The birch sidewalls took the stain quite nicely, but the baltic birch floor didn't take it as well. Will have to add a second coat eventually.


Week 4

Started building the hatch frame. Realized my build to this point must have been pretty sloppy. The top of the hatch is over 1/2" narrower than the base, and the side walls aren't as symmetrical as I thought. Glad I didn't precut everything to length. It's good to have seen the several posts saying soemthing to the effect that it's not about not making mistakes, it's about being good at hiding your mistakes

I started by cutting the top horizontal, then put the doublewide sides in place. I then noticed the sides weren't quite long enough. Happily, a 1x2 under them was just the right size to get everything to line up. I adjusted the benroy plans to have the bottom horizontal under the side ribs rather than between them, and it all lined up. My main concern was maintaining the 1/4" notch reveal (my side ribs needed the 1/4" showing the entire way) to have the right amount of weatherstripping compression once the roof is on the ribs.
Since the hatch wasn't symmetrical, I did a lot of trial and error cutting of the other ribs' lengths to get them sized properly
Ribs are all glued and screwed, and will need cross braces on the next build day.

Sanded the bondo hole filler

Started making the inside door jamb. I'm afraid to try the bent aluminum T molding for the door stop and waterproofing, so I'm following the other ideas of a trim around the inside of the door that will hold the weatherstripping. I cut a 1/4" ply shim flush with the door, and a 1/2" ply stop smaller than the door opening (enough smaller for the stripping to get wider when compressed)

Used an 1/8" roundover router bit on the exposed door jamb parts to get rid of the sharp edges. Also went over the root where it meets the side walls. I've read a couple times that fiberglass doesn't like sharp corners, so I'm hoping this helps enough to prevent issues there. Didn't go more than 1/8" since the roof is only 1/8" ply

Realized this week that I shouldn't have stained the interior yet. I should have waited for the door jamb to be installed. I'm hoping that I don't make the walls look terrible as I stain the jamb. Maybe I'll stain the jamb before it is installed - but something feels like this will be more difficult to fit the jamb just right before some part of it is screwed in.

[john]

More please...

Pics too... Need those.

[Junkboy999]

I’m sure there more than a few people that will like to see this camper build. The ideal of removing the
camper off the trailer, and a TD with a removable galley has been kicked around many times in the past.
I only seen one so far with a removable gally. Just two small pictures. of it from a slide show of galleys.
I don’t think this TD is in this forum.

It looks like the top 6” shelf in the galley hold all the electric outlets and curtis. I bet it adds strength
and is needed to hold the two side wall square as well.

[davidc]

Wow. Over a month since my last post.

Definitely need to figure out how to put pictures inline with the post. uploaded some to my gallery, but it would be much better for the future readers to be able to see a picture of what I tried to explain through words.

Most of the work in weeks 5-9 has been waterproofing of one sort or another. I've also started working on the cabinets, after nearly a week of deciding on a layout. Only the countertop cut and side supports attached to the side walls so far. More on the side supports in a future post as I get the cabinets closer (pictures will be really important).

My biggest and most important learning experience, and all you other newbies take heed.

AVOID FIBERGLASS!!!!!

I watched tons of videos and read many forum posts, and my attempt at fiber glass failed miserably. The intent was to cover the seam where the roof meets the sidewalls with a very strong and waterproof coating of fiberglass.The biggest problem I could not solve was getting the glass to make the corner. I did some rounding of the corner based on some other advice, but it wasn't enough. After applying resin, the glass lifted itself off the wood and made large bubbles. I think a big enough radius to prevent this would have significantly decreased the structural integrity. I spent a full day of just grinding off the fiberglass and resin, then another day's worth trying, not very successfully, to smooth out the leftover resin bumps with bondo lightweight body filler and eventually even some glazing putty.

Most of the other work done was applying a 50/50 mix of varnish and mineral spirits. Everything got at least 4 coats. I used a pump garden sprayer for the vast majority, and a cheap brush to really soak the edges of all the plywood. For more info about this, this thread was my primary source of info viewtopic.php?f=55&t=48548 . Interestingly, while researching how to fix varnish sags for another project (building a sword scabbard, but using full strength varnish on it), I found a woodworking post that called the 50/50 mix a "rubbing varnish" and recommended it for people who had difficulties using fell strength varnish. After the first couple coats, you'll notice the grain of the wood will have been raised. I recommend a light sanding with fine grit (I used 200 grit) to smooth it all back out.

Three learning experiences with the varnish. First, see what the can recommends to use for cleanup. It must be mineral spirits. Water cleanup, as on the spar varnish i bought, thickens and clumps when mixed with mineral spirits. That took some effort to clean up. Second, the cans marked "Polyurethane" in the area with stains and spar varnish in the big box stores is the "cheap varnish" the waterproofing thread recommends. I didn't see the word varnish anywhere on the can, but that's the "poly varnish" they mention. Third, don't start this process until 100% of your gluing has been done. I realized my design didn't allow for weather stripping at the bottom of the hatch, so i needed to add a board that extended below the bottom of the hatch, allowing a gap for stripping between it and the back side edge of the floor. The PL Premium glue (the cheapest of the 3 versions) did not stick well to the waterproofed surface, even though it was pretty rough from the raised grain. In desperation, I tried the top end of the PL Premium (8x the gripping strength) and it held, but you can't get it very smooth where it shows (its texture reminds me of sanded grout).

As for how much varnish and spirits to buy, I recommend starting with a gallon of each to be able to do several coats. And to save another few bucks, check the ingredients on paint thinner - most say "100% mineral spirits" and are cheaper than the low odor spirits. You still might need more than this 2 gallon total, just don't start with a quart like I did.

Last week, as part of planning the cabinet design, was planning where all the holes in the sidewalls go. Vents (one for battery box, and two at the top in the cabin for cross ventilation), electrical passthrough, and two large holes for deck plates intended for air conditioner hoses ( based on Shadow Catcher's design viewtopic.php?t=44561 ). Learning experience with the holes? Of course. If you have a hole cutting set where the round cutters are completely solid, use them. Round hole saws with a gap in them (no idea why, but that's what my friend had) are terrible. If you decide to buy an adjustable cutter, the kind with a drill bit in the center, then a cutter or two that side on a bar to the diameter you need, take it apart before using it and tighten the screw holding the bar in place. The bar screw was loose, which let the bar slide nearly 1/4" while cutting, not making for a very neat hole.

The other learning experience on hole saws is to cut half way through from one side, then finish the hole from the other side. Cutting all the way through one direction tends to break away veneer.

Finally, painting the outside happened this week. If you use the varnish waterproofing, make sure you use a primer than will stick to varnish (read the can). Expect to apply 2 coats - the varnish, especially on smoother surfaces, caused a few small spots where the primer started to "bead up" (not really beading, but it was a surface tension effect) and left a bare spot here and there. A double coat of primer on all the plywood edges helps helps too - the edges still seem to soak in the primer even after all the varnish waterproofing.

[Junkboy999]

Hey sounds like you're learning. Shame it is on the Teardrop project where you are learning this stuff. As
a woodworker for years, I have ran across everything you mentioned above.

Fiberglass is a fickle mistress. The lighter weight ( thinner ) weav is easier to bend around a corner. You’ll
find most of the TD builders just use the fiberglass resin on the edges of the plywood. Protecting these raw
untreated plywood cut area is critical. They will soak up moisture even from humidity if not sealed or glued
watertight to another surface.

As for posting your pictures in a thread. First add them to your gallery. Then start a new post in your thread.
The menu above the “TEXT ENTER AREA” will have a “ GALLERY” tab at the far right of the tabs. Clicking there
will open your gallery and show you your most recent uploaded pictures in a thumbnail format. Under each
thumbnail is “ insert image in to post box. clicking here will insert that thumbnail in to your post. Just make
sure you stopped typing your text. You hit “ ENTER “ to move down a space before you go to your gallery.
The image code will be added wherever your text cursor is in your text.

Ok enough of there. Have you came up of any idea of how the camper is going to mount and unmount off the
trailer yet. Or have you given up on there. I did see a photo of another TD there was mounted up the top rails
of a trailer like your. Made it a bit tall, but gave room for storage under the TD and the trailer bed. I know
I'd seen on on this forum one that is just sitting down in the trailer bed itself with the rails still attached. I’m not
sure if it can be lifted out or slid off the trailer.

[crumvoc]

Hey sounds like you're learning. Shame it is on the Teardrop project where you are learning this stuff. As
a woodworker for years, I have ran across everything you mentioned above.

Fiberglass is a fickle mistress. The lighter weight ( thinner ) weav is easier to bend around a corner. You’ll
find most of the TD builders just use the fiberglass resin on the edges of the plywood. Protecting these raw
untreated plywood cut area is critical. They will soak up moisture even from humidity if not sealed or glued
watertight to another surface.

As for posting your pictures in a thread. First add them to your gallery. Then start a new post in your thread.
The menu above the “TEXT ENTER AREA” will have a “ GALLERY” tab at the far right of the tabs. Clicking there
will open your gallery and show you your most recent uploaded pictures in a thumbnail format. Under each
thumbnail is “ insert image in to post box. clicking here will insert that thumbnail in to your post. Just make
sure you stopped typing your text. You hit “ ENTER “ to move down a space before you go to your gallery.
The image code will be added wherever your text cursor is in your text.

Ok enough of there. Have you came up of any idea of how the camper is going to mount and unmount off the
trailer yet. Or have you given up on there. I did see a photo of another TD there was mounted up the top rails
of a trailer like your. Made it a bit tall, but gave room for storage under the TD and the trailer bed. I know
I'd seen on on this forum one that is just sitting down in the trailer bed itself with the rails still attached. I’m not
sure if it can be lifted out or slid off the trailer.

I have quite a bit of experience with fiberglass (fixing fg hulls on boats in my youth... I still itch...) and built a wood/epoxy boat a few years ago. A few things to keep in mind:
Fiberglass (polyester) resin is NOT waterproof. It is porous and must be sealed with paint or gelcoat. Otherwise it will eventually blister and fail. Marine epoxy is waterproof. Neither kind is UV stable and will break down if not over coated with paint, varnish or gelcoat. Polyester resin is a fairly poor adhesive, whereas epoxy is a very good adhesive, even filling gaps. When using epoxy as a glue be careful not to squeeze out too much epoxy. That will result in a weaker " glue starved" joint. wooden boat magazine over the years has had a lot of excellent articles about epoxy. Also system 3 epoxy in seattle Publishes the excellent "epoxy book".

[mikeschn]

Here's some help with photos... viewtopic.php?p=911290#p911290

and here's my question...

I am bending 6 oz fiberglass around the sharp corners of the roof. What should the radius be? 1/4" or 3/8"?

Mike...