Cold weather camping question

[Woodbutcher]

When you are going to be towing in weather below freezing, how do you pack? If you leave from up North in the winter and head south, how do you pack food that could freeze and burst? Do you wait till you get to warm weather to stock up? Does anyone heat the galley somehow or does enough heat migrate into the galley from the cabin to keep things from freezing.

[Mary C]

How far south? if the temp is going to stay below 32 degrees then most things can freeze, if I have a lot I would put it in the car and I figure when I went to sleep i could put it in the tear with me. Lets just say pickles the high water content would freeze if kept below freezing for long and could explode and glass is a mess so put em with you, but meat keep in the cooler also use common sense . if only going for a few days you should be alright. when we were without power for 6 days one year I didn't open up the freezer and the things I used a lot I put outside in 38 degrees and it was fine. A cooler can also keep things warmer without ice too. and one suggestion I got from a friend once use a foot warmer in the cooler keep the top on and it will stay above 32 for 4-6 hours. Hope this helps.

Mary C.

[Redgloves]

Hmmm, I am leaving March 2 traveling to Florida. Leaving Minnesota, anticipate being somewhere in into Kentucky first day. Would be an issue if temps are extremely cold.

Have stocked canned goods in galley so far. Wasn't too worried about freezing during the days travel.
I anticipate sun to keep galley above freezing temps during day.
A small light can provide adequate heat to keep a small space above freezing during night.

How are outside soda machines kept warm during winter so soda doesn't explode?


Jean

[bobhenry]

Koolers !

That is the answer !

They keep hot things hot and cold thing cold.

Store anything you are worried about freezing in the kooler and the cold will have to work to get inside. I know for a fact that in 12 degree weather a old metal coca cola cooler mounted on the tongue of my 4x7 trailer will keep beer at a crisp wonderful 36 degrees for 48 hours.

[Woodbutcher]

Good to know Bob. Are you putting canned goods and jars in coolers as well. After a day or two I would think that it would get to freezing temps inside a cooler as well. No?

[S. Heisley]

Steve, This is an excellent topic for thought! Thanks for bringing it up!

Out here, in sunny California, we don't think of it too much as many of us don't go camping when the weather is c-c-cold. However, one never knows when a trip over the mountains might be necessary.

MaryC is right when she says that it is best to stay away from foods canned in glass jars. I wouldn't want to clean up a mess like pickle juice either...especially sweet pickle juice. Ewwww! What a mess that would be!

Redgloves had a good idea, with using a light to keep things warm enough. However, to clarify that, it should be an incandescent bulb. LED's won't work at all. (Most people know this; but, ya never know who might not.) I don't know if a fluorescent bulb would work; but, due to what happens when they break, I don't think I'd try it. (I've never seen fluorescent bulbs used to keep water pumps and pipes warm but they do use incandescent bulbs for that purpose.) Out here, we use the old fashioned incandescent Christmas house lights on citrus trees, to keep them from freezing on cold nights. If you happen to have any of those stored away in your attic or basement, you could string them around your food. However, you might get some strange looks as you motor down the highway!

BobHenry also had a good idea, using an ice chest; but, if you don't want to hunt up an old one or run out and buy one, you could line a cardboard box with Styrofoam, especially if you have some left-over pieces in the garage. Line the box's bottom, sides, and top with the equivalent depth of 2". Then, for added measure, wrap the box in a blanket and put your towels and clothes (ie. dufflebags?) around it.

If you are buying water in bottles, and they don't already have an air space at the top, I would suggest emptying a little out, because water expands when it freezes. If you are filling water jugs, leave a little bit of air space near the top.

Your best bet is dried food because it will survive just about any temperature; plus, it is easy to prepare and makes a hot meal in a hurry. Even if you are taking cans, I would put a few freeze-dried meals in the mix, just in case. Those scrambled egg packets, fixed with hot water are mighty nice when the morning is the coldest and you're jumping around, trying to keep warm.

[jmkjr72]

you have a couple of options for things that can freeze
repackage them in things that wont burst and make a mess such as tupperware with plenty of head room for things to freeze
put them in a cooler or some sort of insulated storage that has been kept at room temp
or keep them in the tow vehicle where they will be kept warm and then throw a blanket or something over them at night to keep them warm when its not running

i have done a lot of canoe trips where we repack the items in ziplock bags and then freeze the items and use them to help keep the cold things cold and just unthaw them as needed
just a not on eggs make sure they are scrambled before you freeze them

[Miriam C.]

I put a thermometer in mine to see if I would need to protect things. YOu might check your temp at night or early in the morning. If your td is not warm enough you can use portable heaters that run on 12 volt batteries..

[wagondude]

just a not on eggs make sure they are scrambled before you freeze them

Funny story: Our scout troop had some eggs freeze in the shell on a campout. Frozen eggs bounce like rubber balls. Use coolers without ice for cold camping and you will be ok for all but the extream cold temps. If it is really cold, put some warm water (not hot). in a sealed container inside the cooler to slow down the cool off for over night. haul the cooler in the car if you are traveling at low temps for an extended time and don't turn the heat up too high. You can also move the cooler back and forth between the trailer and the TV if one or the other seems too warm or too cool.

[Bogo]

I put a thermometer in mine to see if I would need to protect things. YOu might check your temp at night or early in the morning. If your td is not warm enough you can use portable heaters that run on 12 volt batteries..

In the past I used a thermostat and a heating pad to keep a cooler from freezing. The heating pad was an old 120VAC one, but it put out enough heat when powered by 12VDC to keep the goods inside the cooler from freezing. BTW, this worked fine in -10 degree temperatures. My thermostat was a standard wall thermostat used for controlling electric radiant panels. I set it on it's lowest setting which ended up being about 50F. It kept the cooler's interior temperature right around 50F.

These Silicon Rubber heaters look interesting: http://www.oemheaters.com/c-982-silicon ... aters.aspx One or two of them on an 1/8" aluminum heat spreader would work nicely. They have their solid state thermostat, but any DC capable thermal switch with the right temperature set points should do. The company also has 12VDC heat tape.

An RV specific set of line products for holding tanks and plumbing: http://www.ultraheat.com/are_you_protected.html They have flat stick on thermal pads for heating holding tanks, and formed heaters for water lines, etc.. Don't know how the flat plate ones would work in free air heating a cooler. Looks like from the installation instructions they want fluid present in the tank so it may not be an option unless two are run in series and attached to a good heat spreader. 2 In series it would be 1/4th the wattage per sq inch so they wouldn't get nearly as hot. Note, as both pads have built in thermostats, both would have to switch on for heating to take place.

Another possible heating element would be to use standard 12VDC bulb. They throw off allot of heat, and most of the light produced would be absorbed as heat.

Something I noticed about many of the mechanical thermostats is they have wide on/off temperature ranges, as much as 10 to 15 degrees. You may wish to use a PID type temperature controller instead. Then it would be possible to keep the cooler at 40F +/1 a degree or two. It would be a non freezing refrigerator then. This assumes the outside temperature is colder... I've seen 12VDC powered PID temperature controllers at Amazon form some of their marketplace venders.

[Bogo]

I noticed a price change on a stick on Katz heating pad at Amazon. Then started to look at other sizes of them. A Katz 150 W heating pad http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-Watt-U ... sim_auto_1 would provide 1.5 Watts heat when powered by 12VDC. It's about half the price of the lower cost ones I'd mentioned before. It would still need to be attached to a heat spreader like a sheet of aluminum. If I can find my leftover sheets of aluminum I'll try a test to see how much a cooler heats up inside if a 120VAC 50W Katz heating pad is powered by 12VDC. It should output about .5 Watts of heat.

Edit to fix an error. 1/10th the voltage across a resistor is 1/100th the wattage. For a 5W heater, a 500W 120V Katz heating pad would need to be used. It'll draw roughly 0.51 @ 14.67V to 0.35 Amps @ 10V. A 100 Amp hour deep cycle lead-acid battery should power it for 160+ hours with no recharge to the battery.

[pmowers]

One of the things that helps is that the salt and other dissolved materials in the cans lowers the freezing point quite a bit, just like the stuff on the roads. There are limits though, I remember throwing bags of IV solutions into the heating ducts to thaw them out. You can get almost 24 hours of heat out of a Thermacare back warmer. The combination of the heater, lowered freezing point and a foam cooler should suffice for awhile to keep things thawed.

[S. Heisley]

One of the things that helps is that the salt and other dissolved materials in the cans lowers the freezing point quite a bit, just like the stuff on the roads. There are limits though, I remember throwing bags of IV solutions into the heating ducts to thaw them out. You can get almost 24 hours of heat out of a Thermacare back warmer. The combination of the heater, lowered freezing point and a foam cooler should suffice for awhile to keep things thawed.

Great ideas!

[Woodbutcher]

WOW, some great ideas here, thanks. I guess for the most part I only need protection from the cold for 1 day. My plans would never be to camp below freezing for any length of time.

[pmowers]

Just another thought- most of the thermoelectric coolers are also warmers, you just reverse the polarity.