If foam alone is good enough for walls..

[razzer]

But GPW think of all the paper work you end up filling out and the fines you'll end up paying . Not to mention having a real good chance of shooting a neighboring camper .

[GPW]

Some days the Bear eats you , some days , you eat the Bear ... better the latter huh ? That was the way it was in the old days before bureaucrats , game wardens and Bear huggers ...

[KCStudly]

I just want everyone to know that I am not a true "gun yahoo" I just play one here on the forum for "effect". In real life it is far better to keep that stuff to ones self.

In reality, I would try at all cost to avoid any up close and personal encounters with bears. The "iron" (or in this case SS) is just one option that might not even help you in the wrong situation.

One of the things my sister and I inherited from my dad's estate was a large steel bear box about the size of a large cooler, maybe 2h x 2d x 3w (I think it was made from a large electrical enclosure cabinet), has double pad lock tabs made out of angle iron added on. Have been keeping it in the back of my mind how we might be able to bring that along to the creek. Not especially light weight, tho.

[razzer]

KC not to worry , I imagine most will realize you aren't a yahoo of any sort . I'm from a long line of responsible gun owners and I think you will find " or already know " that people who use guns are very respectful of what they can do . Unfortunately some people get the wrong idea of what kind of tool a gun is from the movies .

[pete42]

Just punch a bear as hard as you can in the nose.

They do not like that.

Randy

my uncle stubby did that.............


Irving it sounds like your not fully convinced that no wood is needed, over the years others have expressed the same concerns
I at first had the same kind of doubts but reading and see what others have built using foam with wood hard points I'm convinced
no wooden shell is needed that is why they are called foamies.
once convinced you will become an advocate too.

Pete

[Irving]

Just punch a bear as hard as you can in the nose.

They do not like that.

Randy

my uncle stubby did that.............


Irving it sounds like your not fully convinced that no wood is needed, over the years others have expressed the same concerns
I at first had the same kind of doubts but reading and see what others have built using foam with wood hard points I'm convinced
no wooden shell is needed that is why they are called foamies.
once convinced you will become an advocate too.

Pete

Well I am building a 6 x 10. And it is going to be 6 feet tall at it's highest point. I'm definitely going to use some degree of plywood. Do you think a strict foamie could be built this large?

[KCStudly]

With proper gusset supports out of foam (as GPW has previously illustrated using an arched partial bulkhead concept) I do not see why not.

The biggest reason I am doing the thin ply skins inside TPCE is for the traditional wood interior feel. The added strength is just gravy for off road durability.

If you integrate the arches into your cabinets and/or perhaps use partial bulkhead stiffeners to define your interior spaces (like for a dinette or sleeping area) you could easily go that big. By making the cabinets part of the support structure you add a lot of strength, rather than just bringing them along for the ride and needing even more structure to hold them up.

Also consider adding some radius to the roof, either front to back or side to side. This would add significant stiffness and be a big asset for larger panels.

[Mary C]

Razzer and irving, I was told to read the big thread and all of the forum, I did and what GPW and KC and the others are trying to say is read on, you will not only answer your own questions but you might find that thinking outa the box and also learn from the experimentation of the others. I wanted to build tall and wood till I read Kathrine and the twins section . I wanted to use aluminum at one time too but I hate cuts and bleeding doesn't appeal to me. I also wanted thrifty and light, very light. I wanted wood but then after reading the foam section I too realized the failure of wood in the open elements( I don't like having to paint on "the mixture" or poly or varnish every year to keep it in great condition, so...... I am building a foamie, One sheet of plywood very thin, everything will be foam, TBII, canvas and Paint including the shelves, floor and walls. I will have 1x2s encasing the door and door frames and 2 support frames inside under the hinge and at the front so the solar unit can be mounted. So read on! you may change your mind and do something completely different. remember the taller you build the more ballast (I like wine,myself) . and as far as bears a 38 will do nicely and I saw a video of a bear getting the campers food out of the tree so that doesn't always work. and the other thing we learned is that Hail dimples in foam will heal and all you do is paint over it. everybody likes to rehash so read on, make your comments and someone will comment right back. above all the confusion doesn't last long then the picture will come clear as mud. Good Luck and welcome.

Mary C.

[atahoekid]

and as far as bears a 38 will do nicely and I saw a video of a bear getting the campers food out of the tree so that doesn't always work.
Mary C.

Since I've lived in bear country for over a dozen years now, let me share what I have learned. Yup, we actually have black bears roaming through our town. Actually you could say it's their town, since they were here first. Anyway, I've learned that a .38 doesn't always stop a bear right away either. A couple years back, one of my acquaintances shot a bear in the skull with a .38 from about 30 feet away, my friend says he saw the bullet strike the bear in the skull above the right eye. Now I would tend to doubt it too but the man's a preacher, the house was well lit at the time and my friend had an unobstructed view of the bear from the stair landing above where the bear stood. The police investigating the shooting found the spent bullet on the floor and found a trail of blood leading away from the house. So if not a shot to the skull, the bullet struck the bear somewhere. Anyway, the bear continued to break into garages and houses (so a sheet of plywood and foam does not make a good bear deterrent), make a pig of himself on garbage and make himself a general nuisance until winter and hibernation. The bear did not return the following spring and wildlife officials believe that the wound probably got infected and cause the bear to die. It was estimated that the bear weighed about 500 - 550#s.

What was said about the tree limb trick is absolutely true. Bears have figured out they can climb the tree, shake the cache loose from the limb or just break the limb and let it fall to the ground. Use bear boxes when out camping in established campgrounds. If you're in the wilderness use bear proof containers.

Someone said something about smellables. Again very true. And just because we won't eat it doesn't mean a bear won't try. If it smells good, they'll try to eat it. Cosmetics, deodorants, sweet smelling soaps have all become bear attractants. BTW, they love toothpaste.

Best defense against bears while you're out camping is to keep trash and garbage out of your campsite as much as possible, doesn't matter if you're there or not, get rid of it. Always store your food in the bear boxes provided. That includes your smellables. Don't take anything edible or smellable to bed with you at night. Clean up well after meals. Stow your dogs' food too.

Lastly, remember bears are almost always after the food not you. Black bear attacks are pretty rare especially in the wild. Most bears in the US are black bears although they can be any color and black bears are common throughout the US. Grizzly bears (more correctly brown bear) are more likely to attack although those are pretty rare too but more common than black bear attacks. Grizzly bears are most likely to be found in Washington, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana. In the over 40 years that I've been camping in the bear populated West, I've never had any problems with bears, but then again I've always been cautious about stowing my food, including smellables, and getting rid of garbage as soon as I can. If you're gonna carry a weapon, remember that bigger is better but if you just wing it, you'll probably piss it off and it's a bad idea to discharge a firearm if there are other people are around. Just sayin'

[razzer]

Thanks for the detailed information on bears , atahoekid . That matches up with everything I've been told . Chuckle , I live just north of Philadelphia and we have black bears here too . Granted not many and seldom around , but they get people stirred up when they end up in our town .

[atahoekid]

I would imagine that they're not often sighted where you are so I can see people getting excited about it. Where I live they're pretty common and the only people who call police are the visitors and the people who end up with them in their house or garage. People get excited around here when one gets killed. Typically a bear vs. auto or someone shoots one out of ignorance or unwarranted fear.

[Mary C]

Mel didn't mean to stir the pot about bears, you have perfect information about the bears. in the video the bear pulled on the rope and the limb and down came the cash of food and about the 38 I use rat shot just enough to make the bear run. Never had to use it but would use the next shot if necessary for the two legged rat. I have to agree though I wouldn't want to shoot a bear. I don't plan to stay in bear country on my Big Out West trip for very long but I do want to be prepared but 95% of my camping, my biggest worry will be scorpions snakes and skunks. but Frozen turkeys , Now that is worrysome. How do you stop a flying frozen turkey ? .....

Mary C.

[Bogo]

Some days the Bear eats you , some days , you eat the Bear ... better the latter huh ? That was the way it was in the old days before bureaucrats , game wardens and Bear huggers ...

Yeah, in the good old days it was a tossup. Shoot a bear at close range an you had a 50% chance of getting mauled and maybe killed. Spray the bear with bear spray and it's less than a 5% chance of getting mauled and so far nobody has been killed.

It should tell you something that the guy the RCMP, NPS and FS has on bear watch is holding a 5 to 9 shot 12 or 10 gauge shotgun loaded with magnum bear slugs. A bear slug is a single solid lump of lead. A .357 magnum just doesn't have the needed penetrating power to get through a bear's ribs when it's charging let alone travel deep enough to get to the heart. A bear's skull is also effectively quite sloped when charging so bullets often ricochet off most of it. It takes a shot right into the eye socket, nose or mouth to get in. Good luck doing that. Furthermore when you do manage to take out a bear's circulatory system, they still have lots of stored energy in their muscles. They still have a minute or two of fight left in them. They can cover allot of ground in that time, and even kill you despite being already mortally wounded. A ways off, a high powered rifle will do. Close up forget the hand gun, use bear spray instead.

[Bogo]

One of the things my sister and I inherited from my dad's estate was a large steel bear box about the size of a large cooler, maybe 2h x 2d x 3w (I think it was made from a large electrical enclosure cabinet), has double pad lock tabs made out of angle iron added on. Have been keeping it in the back of my mind how we might be able to bring that along to the creek. Not especially light weight, tho.

Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee rates boxes, etc for bear resistance. http://www.igbconline.org/ They even have a few captive bears that they use for testing products bear proofness. http://www.igbconline.org/index.php/y-n ... erage-bear and http://www.igbconline.org/index.php/saf ... t-products

I haven't been able to find the bear resistant container recommendations page. It had things like gaps couldn't be allowed to grow to over 1/8" to keep a bear form getting their claw in and prying it open. Thankfully most bear populations haven’t figured out breaking into cars. It'll take 20 plus years for the ones in the Sierras and Blue Ridge Mountains to die off and forget how to open cars. Unfortunately I bet many visitors each will leave food in their cars and reward the bears so they will never forget.

[GPW]

Just to clear things up . I’m not an advocate of shooting anything .... Best to just avoid the bears if possible ...